Does Jesus love porn stars as much as he loves the righteous?

Nathan July 27, 2010 78

It is true that Jesus loves them, and died for them, but does Jesus love them as much as He loves the righteous…?

Wait, what?

Good Intentions Don’t Guarantee Sound Theology

The xxxchurch.com, and other groups, reach out to porn actors in a way that makes them feel safe, with the intention of sharing God’s message in a way that allows them to approach God’s throne without fear of the typical condemnation and pious judgment that Christianity is often known for

This is completely amazing, as people who are outside of the church should never feel judged by those within

However, in the process of seeking to reach the lost, we must share and teach a message that reflects God’s true character, and his word, with fidelity regardless of whether the audiences are believers or non-believers–this means not watering down the gospel to the point where people do not respect God enough to feel true urgency and conviction to change their lives

This doesn’t mean we should go bananas on people with a “you are going to hell sinner!” message, but it also doesn’t mean we should go to the opposite extreme and tell people things that feel good to say and hear in attempt to make Christianity easier to accept, but aren’t readily supported by scripture

There must be a balance of accurate theology, mixed with the love that God has shown, and is ready to show, everyone who turns to him

Okay, so let’s get on with the controversy, does Jesus love porn stars as much as he loves the righteous?

But My Jesus Loves Everyone Equally

Whoa there Shirley Temple, before you start tap dancing a reply, let me illustrate in the Bible where it says that God loves, regards, and treats people differently based on their conduct

Psalm 25:10
All the ways of the LORD are loving and faithful for those who keep the demands of his covenant

Psalm 103:11
For as high as the heavens are above the earth, so great is his love for those who fear him

Proverbs 11:20
The LORD detests men of perverse heart but he delights in those whose ways are blameless

Psalm 11:5
The LORD examines the righteous, but the wicked and those who love violence his soul hates

“Whoa, whoa”, you say, “not so fast, that’s not *my* Jesus!”

Okay okay, these verses are from the Old Testament and don’t have anything to do with the Jesus of the New Testament. I mean come on, Jesus was all about holding baby lambs, hugging children, high-fives, and sunshine covered rainbow sparkles!

…right?

An Eternal God, With An Eternal Character

Jesus and God are the the same, so… that means unless God has multiple personalities, they share the same character

John 10:29-30
My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. I and the Father are one

Hebrews 13:8
Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever

So, if Jesus, being God, is the same throughout eternity, then He shares the same personality as God

Simple right?

By that reasoning then, Jesus shares the personality of the same God who has such utter disdain for those who love violence that “His soul hates” them, not to mention the fact that Jesus shares the character of the same God that regards Christians who befriend the world as his enemies, and considers these people as expressing “hatred towards God” by the way they deny him in their lives

James 4:4
You adulterous people, don’t you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God

At first, all of this may sound harsh, but remember that the God of the OT and NT are the exact same, so as much as people believe Jesus to love so deeply, the God of the OT loved in the same way–the logic goes both ways, it isn’t like God didn’t have a soft side before Jesus came

So yes, Jesus paid for our sins but it doesn’t mean God suddenly became schizophrenic or developed multiple personalities and started acting in a way that contradicts the OT: he is the same yesterday, today, and forever

God Loves To Forgive

The one thing to keep in mind though, is that despite how the verses above show a different level of relationship and regard for people based on their conduct, just like Jesus, the God of the OT delights to show mercy, and does not condemn people who truly walk away from their sin out of reverence for him

Micah 7:18
Who is a God like you, who pardons sin and forgives the transgression of the remnant of his inheritance? You do not stay angry forever but delight to show mercy

James 4:6
But he gives us more grace. That is why Scripture says: “God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble.”

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POSTED IN » Bible Stuff That Won't Bore You

Bonnie

It says that God is a forgiven God even to the most sinners,but he will forgive you,but that does not mean that you can continue to do the same sin over and over. That you will not be forgiven for.
- http://www.godandstuff.com Nathan
  
  Hello Bonnie. It is true that God will forgive our sins when we confess and walk away from them, and it is important that all Christians are taught to pursue salvation with the understanding that God is to be respected and honored above our will, desires, friends, social influences or even our professions. Salvation is not instantly attainable by saying a one-time sinner’s prayer and saying “Jesus is Lord”, it is a life-long process. Also, I would never want to stand in front of God’s throne to defend why I told a porn star, or any habitual sinner, false or misleading doctrine.
  
  Philippians 2:12
  Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed—not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence—continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling,
Emily Ladd

Ok well just to say something, God loves everyone equally but he might be happier with the desicions of a pastor and not a porn star.
- http://www.godandstuff.com Nathan
  
  Hi Emily. Can you show me in scripture where it says that God loves everyone equally, regardless of their decisions, I have not personally seen this in the Bible. Also, be very careful on this subject as it is very clear in scripture that God loved the world (John 3:16), but this does not mean He loved everyone equally.
Patrick

Very insightful debate. However we must be careful not to diminish the very purpose of hope in the Christ Jesus.

Romans 5:8 God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
This is a verse about God’s love and, if we understand it rightly, it is truly, deeply shocking.
The shock lays not so much in the fact of Jesus’ death, but in the timing of Jesus’ death. It was while we were still sinners that Christ died for us. In the words of verse 6, Christ died for the ungodly.
If you are a believer in Jesus then this truth underpins your whole life. Christ died for you while you were still a sinner. God foreknew that there would be nothing attractive about you; that you would be under his wrath, repulsive to him; that you would do nothing whatsoever that pleased him in any way. Yet he chose to love you.
In the book of Romans, it is this truth which supports our Christian assurance (verse 10). It is this truth that sustains our joy (verse 11). This truth gives us a right horror of sin in our lives and in the church (chapters 6 and 7). It is the ground of our comfort in Jesus in the famous passage in chapter 8. It is the drive that impels us to tell others about Jesus (chapter 10). It keeps us humble (chapter 11). It shows us how to love others (chapter 12). It is the foundation of our unity in the church (chapter 14).
All this and more is at stake if we begin to deny the truth that God hates sinners before he loves them! See what we lose if we soften the message that outside Christ we are under God’s wrath.
In particular, we lose an understanding of love. In the death of Jesus, God shows us how to love others. God didn’t love lovable people: he loved repulsive people. He loved the objects of his hatred. He loved his enemies. He loved you and me, while we were still sinners. This is how we must love others. However repulsive and repellent the person, you are called to love them, because God first loved you like that.
If you are not a believer in Jesus, then this message is of hope for you and a message of warning.
It is a message of hope because it is so clear that you don’t need to be good to know the love of God. You may have lived as his enemy all your life. You may feel inadequate, sinful, unclean, undeserving — and yes, you are all these things, and so am I. But God demonstrates his love for you in this: while you are still a sinner Jesus died for you. You don’t need to be good: you need only to trust in Jesus who died and rose again.
But there is also a warning. Simply put, God hates sinners, and that means everyone whom he has not made clean. If you have not trusted Jesus then you are God’s enemy, and that is a very foolish fight to pick.
- http://www.godandstuff.com Nathan
  
  Hi Patrick. Your note reminded me of a scripture that calls us to love those around us, no matter who they are or how they treat us:
  
  Matthew 5:43-48
  You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? And if you greet only your brothers, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.
  
  Also, this discussion brings up another question: at what point does someone truly become hated by God?
  
  Is it when they choose a life of sin despite knowing the truth, is it when they live according to their sinful desires or is it when they live in a way that is contrary to their conscience?
  
  James 4:4
  You adulterous people, don’t you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God
Patrick

Hi Nathan. I believe you may have answered your question in a previous comment. Philippians 2:12
Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed—not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence—continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling. I think of David and all he did contrary to God’s word and laws, yet God said, “David was a man after his own heart” and used him for his purposes to do great works. Our Lord said too, “In this world you will have tribulation. “I myself have been “working out my salvation with fear and trembling” for almost 20 years. I have fallen a few times and struggle daily yet, I hold to God’s promises to me through Christ. He knows our hearts. Once you come to Christ it is impossible not to have a change of heart. The body is weak and so is the mind. Here I think of Paul who wrote from prision Philippians 4:8-9. He understood the daily working out your salvation while befriending the world while not be of the world.
- http://www.godandstuff.com Nathan
  
  Hello Patrick. I think it is very important to keep in mind as Christians that the fear (respect) of God is crucial to salvation.
  
  Isaiah 11:1-2
  A shoot will come up from the stump of Jesse; from his roots a Branch will bear fruit. The Spirit of the LORD will rest on him—the Spirit of wisdom and of understanding, the Spirit of counsel and of power, the Spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD – and he will delight in the fear of the LORD.
  
  Ecclesiastes 12:13
  Now all has been heard; here is the conclusion of the matter: Fear God and keep his commandments, for this is the whole duty of man.
Patrick

Agreed and AMEN. I believe too it is vital for Christians to exhibit by example in their daily lives the fear and commandments to the lost. Most of the time words are not needed as much as action is. In my conclusion after viewing XXXCHURCH.COM, I believe these are people who are doing just that. These are people who came out of the pit by the mercy and grace of God, who fear God and walk the talk. Whether you and I approve of their good works in the name of Jesus is not ours to judge. God can be the only judge of the purpose and works he has given these to do.
I do enjoy your blog Nathan. Very refreshing and I appreciate your thoughts and candor. Many of the past writtings have helped me to put into perspective certain situations I have been on a journey with my daughter. Thank you and may blessings overwhelm you!
- http://www.godandstuff.com Nathan
  
  Hi Patrick. To be very clear, I am not speaking negatively of the xxxchurch’s works, I am pointing out a key item in their teachings that is not reflective of Biblically accurate theology. It is very important to teach sound doctrine, especially to new Christians, as watering down the message to “get people in the door” can cause people to not ever truly come to know God’s full character. Also, thank you for the kind words, I am glad to know that you have found value in this blog, I enjoy writing it!
  
  1 Corinthians 5:11-13
  But now I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who calls himself a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat. What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? God will judge those outside. “Expel the wicked man from among you.”
Matt Pleasey

You may or may not have jumped to a conclusion in assuming that Jesus and God have the “same” personality. Jesus, The Holy Spirit, and God are described throughout the bible as three very different things (all being The Most Holy God, but all having their individual and separate aspects.) I’m not saying that I don’t agree with your idea that God loves on different levels, (although, I will not agree with anything I read about God’s Nature unless I’ve come to that conclusion myself via His Word; having never questioned whether God loves his children more, I will have to keep that in mind as I read. I appreciate the thought-jogger.) I just think that for the sake of making such claims one should make sure that every idea you throw out there is strongly backed by The Living Word.

After all, we are about our father’s business and not our own; so we should be careful not to let our pride or hurt intellect interfere with Honesty–read: Righteousness.
- http://www.godandstuff.com Nathan
  
  Hi Matt. Sorry I missed this, there is a lot of spam on this blog that I filter through every day. Regarding your point, you are making intellectual and emotional assertions, but where in scripture can you refute what is written here? Also, it is ironic that you are encouraging me to read the Bible thoroughly before making a point, but, within your own discourse, you are not quoting scripture yourself. If you disagree with what is written here, you are disagreeing with what is in the Bible, not me–I encourage you to go do some theological homework so we can revisit this discussion on the same level.
Your*Servant

i wouldn’t say that Jesus hate porn stars, but he hate their sins and Jesus does not love the pastor more either but God cares more about the porn star then he does the pastor because, the porn star is lost. in luke 15 Jesus told the parable of the lost sheep and how when one out of a hundred sheeps is lost how the owner would leave the 99 to go look for the lost one, that is also how Jesus is, since the pastor already knows God, there’s no use in looking for him but, he needs to look for the lost ones when one who is lost have been fond there is great rejoicing in heaven.
- http://www.godandstuff.com Nathan
  
  Hi Ann. In Psalm 11:5, it is clear that God hates those who love sin: “The LORD examines the righteous, but the wicked and those who love violence his soul hates.” It is true that Jesus would leave behind the ninety-nine to find the one that is lost, but it doesn’t mean that he loves that person more than those who know him, it just means that he actively needs to go help that person. I understand your point, but it is not based on an accurate understanding of Jesus’ parable. Let’s be clear, God “hates” those who love sin, and by love it means people who really enjoy it, the Bible is clear; this is God’s character, we shouldn’t water it down because it feels harsh. James was also clear that friendship with, or preference for, the world over God makes us an enemy of God, James 4:4: “You adulterous people, don’t you know that friendship with the world means enmity against God? Therefore, anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.”
  
  Crazy stuff, but it’s all in the Bible!
Your*Servant

Don’t get me wrong i did not say that God loves sin no , as a matter of fact he dspise it that i know of, no what i meant is that God search for those who are lost not those who have been fond
Debra

I have always walked the “good” path. Never smoked a cigarett, touched drugs, don’t curse … I believe that’s my nature – I’m not bragging, I’m almot ashamed of it … I don’t even know why I’m that way. I still don’t think that I am with the Lord. My fruit is bad – no job, zero money – poverty level since a child, no friends, no spouse. I have read the Bile since age ten. I do not believe that God has forsaken me – I am doing something wrong. As for does God love porn stars, I beleive so. As bad as things get for me – I would never have the nerve to do what they do to put food on the table for my children. If it is for the right reasons, I believe it takes guts. I think all actions are judged by the reason for them and no human being could know this. Only Jesus knows whats in the heart of a person.
- http://www.godandstuff.com Nathan
  
  Hi Debra. I would not say that your fruit as a believer is bad because you don’t have money, friends or a spouse. The true measure of your fruit is seen in what your relationship with God is like, and whether it transforms the lives of those around you. If you feel that you are doing something “wrong”, can you say what you are doing “right” instead?
  
  Regarding how porn stars do things that take “courage”, I contend that it is actually quite lazy to just have sex for money, and from personal exposure to the industry, I know that a lot of the people are not the victims that people make them out to be, meaning: they actively choose the lifestyle because of the easy money. There may be occasional people who do it for more serious reasons, but the porn industry is filled with people who want to “live the life.”
  
  Ecclesiastes 8:14
  “There is something else meaningless that occurs on earth: the righteous who get what the wicked deserve, and the wicked who get what the righteous deserve.”
  
  Jesus will judge the hearts and actions of all mankind, but the point of the article is to show in scripture that God does not love all people equally like some modern Christian groups like to believe because, to them, this “feels right.”
Jimbo

Hey soon-to-be-brother-in-law!

You start your post with “It is true that Jesus loves them.”

You then quote:
Psalm 11:5
The LORD examines the righteous, but the wicked and those who love violence his soul hates

I’m not sure how those two statements fit with your claim that Jesus and God must have the same “personality” (god-ality?). First, it’s entirely plausible that God has multiple facets. I’m not saying it’s true, just saying it’s plausible, and that that would accommodate these seeming contradictions. Second, if God and Jesus really are the same, then I don’t see a reason to choose the harsher version over the more universally loving version. Yeah, you quote Psalm 11:5. But there is also plenty of evidence to show that Jesus loves sinners too (e.g., Romans 5:8, mentioned above by Patrick).

Point is, I’m inclined to believe that Jesus is more accommodating than God when it comes to sinners. You don’t see the OT God kickin it with tax collectors… and if Jesus actually hated Mr. Thief-on-a-cross, I’m not sure he would have pardoned the fellow. Probably would have kicked him in the shins and then murdered his first born, like the OT God would have. I’m no Bible scholar, but I just don’t picture Jesus committing quite the same acts of genocide as the OT God.
- Nathan
  
  Jesus and God are one, as they both have the same personality, and share the same zero tolerance of sin.
  
  The key to understanding this, is knowing that they both reflect different facets of the same being, but that does not mean they are locked into mutually exclusive personalities.
  
  Case in point, it was the God of the OT who chose to lay down his life for us in the form of Jesus, it wasn’t the other way around.
  
  From this, we can see that despite the fury of an OT God that maintained his wrath against his enemies, he was also the same God who chose to come to earth as a man, in total humility, to be beaten, mocked, rejected, and ultimately killed for the sake of showing us how much he loves and adores us.
  
  However, to show that Jesus was not all about sunshine and gumdrops, here are some verses that illustrate he is the same God as the one we see in the OT.
  
  The verses below show that Jesus is God’s word, that he is the very might and power of God himself, and that he knows how to drop the hammer.
  
  John 1:1
  In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God
  
  Psalm 33:6
  By the word of the LORD were the heavens made, their starry host by the breath of his mouth
  
  John 1: 14
  The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth
  
  Ephesians 6:17
  Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God
  
  Revelation 19:11-19
  “I saw heaven standing open and there before me was a white horse, whose rider is called Faithful and True. With justice he judges and makes war. His eyes are like blazing fire, and on his head are many crowns. He has a name written on him that no one knows but he himself. He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God. The armies of heaven were following him, riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean. Out of his mouth comes a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations. “He will rule them with an iron scepter.” He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God Almighty.”
  
  It is pretty clear that despite his earthly role, Jesus in his true form is capable of destruction beyond measure, and wields God’s power and authority just like the OT God. The account of the white rider shows Jesus hanging out, treading the winepress of God’s fury, all while looking fashionable in a robe dipped in blood!
  
  This is the same Jesus that welcomed the little children unto himself.
  
  Regarding your other points, there is no choosing one “version” of God over another, our goal in Christianity is to know God, not only the part we feel most comfortable with.
  
  We can’t love someone we don’t know.
  
  Also, let’s revisit your interpretation of Psalm 11:5 with some highlights.
  
  Psalm 11:5
  The LORD examines the righteous, but the wicked and those who love violence his soul hates
  
  This verse is very clear that God’s soul “hates” those who are truly wicked to the core, and those who “love” violence. This doesn’t refer to people who make mistakes and try to keep improving, but these are people who have given themselves over to darkness.
  
  This is different than saying that God hates everyone, because that would mean Jesus would hate everyone too which makes no sense as God, and Jesus, are love itself.
  
  Matthew 5:17
  Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them
  
  Romans 13:10
  Love does no harm to its neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law
  
  1 John 4:8
  Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love
  
  In closing, the last point is in regards to the man who died next to Jesus on the cross.
  
  Luke 23:39-42
  One of the criminals who hung there hurled insults at him: “Aren’t you the Messiah? Save yourself and us!”
  
  But the other criminal rebuked him. “Don’t you fear God,” he said, “since you are under the same sentence? We are punished justly, for we are getting what our deeds deserve. But this man has done nothing wrong.”
  
  Then he said, “Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.”
  
  The way this man spoke to Jesus, and the other criminal, showed that he had faith in Jesus as he openly respected, and acknowledged, who Jesus was.
  
  A long answer!
  
  I look forward to having further discussions.
  
  Proverbs 27:17
  As iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another
Joe

This is my first visit to this site and I must say that I am somewhat disappointed. I have spent my life from birth in the deep south and raised as a Baptist. Over the years I have become uncomfortable in the Baptist church. Things have changed somewhat over the years but for the most part it is still the same. In the old baptist churches in my area a person would have been turned out of the church for any number of things such as drinking or chasing women. There is no need to quote scripture to me on these matters as I have read them all many times over. It always seemed to me that the people that the church wanted to banish from their congregation were the people who needed to be there the most but yet the congregation just couldn’t wait to send them out into the world without any guidance. Now I know that most of you will not see the connection of my writing with the topic of this blog but for those of you that do make the connection I think that you may find my ramblings to be of some value.
As children of God it is our duty to reach out to lost souls in what ever way that we can. I pray for God to give me understanding every day so that I may better serve him.
One last note-
I once knew a family who had only two children (both were boys). As these two young boys grew from childhood they were both taken to church and taught about God. As they became young men they took different paths in life. The eldest was a very respected and well thought of member of the community while the younger of the two had more of a wild side. The eldest went on to serve the Lord as a Preacher while the younger spent most of his time in jail. I overheard a woman asking the parents one day “do you find that your love is any different for the two of your children”? The mother replied ” NO, We love our children the same as most any parent would but we are just happier with the path that Steve has taken. We love Andy just as much and just keep praying that he will find God soon. All we can do is trust that God has a plan for him.

Thank you all for the opportunity to post here and I hope and pray that God blesses each and every one of you.

Joe
- Nathan
  
  Hi Joe, thank you for taking the time to write
  
  I am sorry you did not find what you are looking for here, and I am very sorry you let the “religious” environment you grew up in create a personal bias against what is written in the Bible
  
  However, in reading your comment, I see that you are not quoting scripture to back up your statements, but relying on anecdotal, emotion based logic to make your points, essentially: you are doing nothing but complaining, and then acting self-righteous and humble as though your opinions are fact
  
  For someone who touts themselves as knowing the Word so much, this strikes me as odd
  
  Also, judging by your comment, you completely missed the point of the article
  
  This article is refuting a statement made by the xxxchurch, which stated that God loves everyone equally, which, as you can see by the scriptures noted above, is simply not true
  
  The article does not advocate barring people from entering the church, nor does it say God does not love sinners (the start of the article says that Jesus loves sinners!), so I am not sure where your assertions are coming from
  
  If you feel that the scriptures discussed within this article and discussion thread are inaccurate, or if you disagree with the thoughts here, please point out why using scripture rather than making over-generalized statements and acting self-righteous in the process
Joe

As I read through all of the posts above I see the same attitude that I find in the churches in my area. ( I need to believe the very and exact same way that you do in order for me to be right ). I knew before I posted that I would get the response that I got. I don’t quote scripture to other folks to prove that I am right. I have no need to prove myself to man. I only try to be worthy of God’s love and blessings. If I can do God’s work and make him happy with me then I could care less what names you or anyone else call me. It is not my place to judge the folks at xxxchurch for what they do or how they do it. I have never been to the site and even if I had it is still not my place to judge them. It sounds like they are trying to do some good in this evil and corrupt world which I would like to think would be pleasing to God.
Nowhere in my post did say that any scripture was inaccurate nor did I say that it was wrong to use scripture to make a point. It was simply my choice not to quote any scripture in order to make my point. In Gods eyes we are all equal, we are all his children. I am no better than you nor are you any better than anyone else on this site. I love you as a brother in Christ as God loves both of us as his children. Call me names if you must, but as you do think back on the Bible. I can remember some other people who were called names and persecuted for the words they spoke and preached.
Again, I thank you for allowing me to come into your world and rant and rave. I will not cause any further problems here and I do apologize if I may have ruffled any feathers. You all seem like good folks. May God bless you all.

Joe
- Nathan
  
  Hi Joe
  
  To put your behavior into perspective, it is the equivalent of someone standing in the doorway of a clothing store, and without going inside, saying that the clothes don’t fit right, everything is too expensive, and the craftsmanship is terrible. Then when the concerned clerk approaches to find out what the problem is, the customer sighs loudly and says “I knew that before I said anything you would respond like this and be upset, but I don’t have to prove myself to you or anyone else. Thank you for letting me in your store though, you seem nice” and then walks out without any further discussion
  
  It doesn’t make a lot of sense
tina

hi, im tina, i am kinda new at this whole christian thing n havent really read the bible much but i do believe with all my heart but…i know this has nothing to do with anything here but i was just wondering… what would yall say to someone who doesnt believe in god/jesus because they say the bible contradicts itself too much?
- Nathan
  
  Hi Tina, thanks for writing
  
  The most important thing about being a Christian is our personal relationship with God, no book can ever create this, and no book should ever be the standard that someone measures the living God by
  
  People can argue all day about whether the Bible is accurate or not, but that doesn’t mean God is any less real, it is just that people often choose to dismiss God because they don’t want to believe in him in the first place, so they find whatever excuse they can rather than have an open mind
Ilovejesus18

That’s not true, God loves everyone the same.
Yeah he hates their sin but Romans 2:11 For there is no respect of persons with God.
Also no one is innocent, no one is more righteous, remember that every sin is the same in God’s eyes, lying is as bad as having an affair they’re all the same.
Don’t ever say God likes one person better, because you are very wrong.
- http://www.godandstuff.com Nathan
  
  Hello!
  
  I read all of Romans 2, and I think it is very important to analyze some of the key points:
  
  Romans 2:5-11
  But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God’s wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed. God “will give to each person according to what he has done.” To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. For God does not show favoritism.
  
  This passage speaks about God not showing favoritism when it comes to judging people, ie: he will punish and reward everyone according to the same standards
  
  God isn’t going to judge people by a looser standard because they are Jewish/Christian/etc…, as everyone will be judged according to the same set of godly standards
  
  So yes, God does not show favoritism when it comes to his standards of judgment, otherwise he wouldn’t be a just God, but when read in full context, this verse doesn’t speak of God loving or not loving people equally
  
  Does this make sense?
Ilovejesus18

One more thing, i don’t want my last comment to offend you, i’ve read your other blogs and they are great, i just don’t agree with this one. You are a great man tho!
- http://www.godandstuff.com Nathan
  
  Offended, no way, I am glad you are writing to say what you think
  
  You are very sweet to say that though!
Meghan

….I Dont know what bible you read mine says “But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us”. romans 5:8He hates our sin but doesnt hate any person….
- http://www.godandstuff.com Nathan
  
  Hi Meghan,
  
  I totally agree that God loves the world, John 3:16 tells us this without a doubt, but the real challenge is to understand that Jesus died for all creation, knowing full well that the vast majority of people would reject him, and in a lot of cases, that even some Christians would fall short of the gift they were given
  
  The thing that is very important to remember, is that the verse in Psalm 11:5 is very specific when it says “the wicked and those who love violence his soul hates”
  
  No matter what verses we look for around this, we have to understand God’s character in that he literally hates those who embrace a lifestyle of sin and reject him
  
  Now, this doesn’t mean that God hates all sinners or some other extreme point of view, and we are not talking about those who are good people but are just slightly astray, but the truly vile people in the world that are despicable and awful
  
  Even in the New Testament, James is very clear that even Christians who simply befriend the world become God’s enemies
  
  James 4:4
  You adulterous people, don’t you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God
  
  Eep, that is a strong statement!
  
  In all of this, we must remember that God is love itself, and anything that we do that is contradictory to God’s character deeply hurts and offends him. But, he still chose to give mankind an equal opportunity to overcome sin and death through Jesus–this is true love, laying down your life knowing that people already disregard, and in some cases hate you, just so that they could be saved
Julie

When Jesus started His ministry on this earth, He didn’t stay in the synagogues only (with the “beloved” believers). In fact, He spent most of the time around sinners, including prostitutes and thieves. He had so much love and compassion towards them as a man (in the human flesh), so as God His love is perfect, and unconditional. He hates their sins, but loves them so much that He died for them. And for us, because we too are “sinners”. I agree that some have wicked hearts, and His judgment will be great towards them. But to say that He loves Pastors and believers more than the unbelievers… that is not right. Yes, He is more pleased with the Pastor, because he does His will, but then again, the Pastor is a sinner too, and unless he repents of his own sins, failures and shortcomings (which will happen all his life) he is no better than the prostitute around the corner. He has no favorites. His love is equal towards everyone. But He is pleased when we choose righteousness and He will bless us here on earth and share His kingdom in heaven with us.
- http://www.godandstuff.com Nathan
  
  Hi Julie,
  
  These are good ideas, but do you have scriptural reference for your point of view that God loves everyone equally, no matter how they act?
Anthony

Hello Nathan! Recently discovered the site. I love it! But I’d have to entirely disagree. Jesus loves all equally. Period. Does the parable of the lost son ring a bell? Now of course He is far more pleased with people who choose righteously, but His love is no less for anyone. The Scripture you referenced in regards to James 4:4 I take to mean people who outright rejected righteous ways and embraced wrong ones. Ya know? Not ignorant of it. Love the blog, God’s doing some awesome stuff through ya, brother!
- http://www.godandstuff.com Nathan
  
  Hi Anthony,
  
  Wait, so someone disagrees with me, well I never!
  
  XD
  
  I kid!
  
  Thank you for writing, this blog is awesome, and I love interacting with people on fun topics that build our knowledge and faith
  
  The example of the prodigal son is good, though what I wrote doesn’t contradict the parable that people can come back to God if they truly turn away from their sins
  
  To substantiate this, the full meaning of the prodigal son is about mankind being created in perfection, turning to sin, and then returning to God in total humility but given salvation through grace
  
  Micah 7:18
  Who is a God like you, who pardons sin and forgives the transgression of the remnant of his inheritance? You do not stay angry forever but delight to show mercy
  
  This verse illustrates how God delights to show mercy, doesn’t stay angry forever, but also does get angry at people for their sin, which leads us to James 4:4
  
  Yes, God loves mankind tremendously, so much that he gave Jesus’ life as a sacrifice, and he gave us the freewill to accept or reject him at our discretion, but James 4:4 is spoken directly to believers, and the word “adulterous” means those who have idols in their lives, ie: things that they put between themselves and God
  
  James 4 is about chastising believers for living half-hearted lives for God, not totally rejecting him, as it wouldn’t be adultery at that point, they would just be in a new relationship as the concept of adultery is rooted in the notion that a person has a long-term relationship but dabbles with other ones along the way
  
  Regarding the point of whether God loves at various levels, we agree that people can come/return to God despite their life of sin, but I have not seen you provide scriptural proof that says God loves everyone equally–give!
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100001389399543 Daniel Crosby

i know you mean well in this but god loves the whole world endlessly look what he did for Mary saved her even though she was a whore god doesn’t discriminate because he one sympathizes with all sin because he was tempted with all sin and two sin is sin sin equals death weather you lie or kill its the same so why would he love anyone more than another its a real shame your teaching hear is false and i would be wrong not to say something hear because this is wrong teaching your telling some people because of there sin god doesn’t love them as much as the next person but that’s a lie because see we all sin and mess up but god said that no matter what we have done we can be washed clean
- http://www.godandstuff.com Nathan
  
  Hi Daniel,
  
  I am not sure what you mean by calling Mary a whore, can you expand on this, that is an interesting way to open a debate
  
  There are a number of things I want to address in your response, but primarily, I want to address your misquoting of scripture as it looks like you read the article, then went onto a Bible site and looked up “favoritism” without reading the verses around them for context on what they really meant
  
  Let’s take your scriptures one by one
  
  ************************************
  Acts 10:34
  Then Peter began to speak: “I now realize how true it is that God does not show favoritism
  
  This verse is not about God showing favoritism about sin, it is about Peter, a Jew, understanding for the first time that the Gentiles were to receive, and benefit from, the salvation made available through Jesus’ death on the cross and inherit these blessings right alongside the Jewish people
  
  Previously, such a thing was completely unheard of, and the very idea would have caused him to labeled as a radical, a heretic, and cause him to lose all credibility with the Jewish people as Gentiles were regarded as less than the Jewish nation, and were not entitled to anything from God
  
  His statement that “God does not show favoritism” is based on the fact that God’s salvation is for all, not just for the Jews, it is for all “men from every nation who fear him and do what is right”
  
  Also, the Greek word used here for favoritism is “prosōpolēmptēs”, which means “discriminate”, so what this verse is saying is that God’s salvation is available to all without discrimination, as in this case, between Jew or Gentile
  
  This passage has nothing to do with whether God loves people equally or not
  
  Acts 10:27-38
  Talking with him, Peter went inside and found a large gathering of people. He said to them: “You are well aware that it is against our law for a Jew to associate with a Gentile or visit him. But God has shown me that I should not call any man impure or unclean. So when I was sent for, I came without raising any objection. May I ask why you sent for me?”
  
  Cornelius answered: “Four days ago I was in my house praying at this hour, at three in the afternoon. Suddenly a man in shining clothes stood before me and said, ‘Cornelius, God has heard your prayer and remembered your gifts to the poor. Send to Joppa for Simon who is called Peter. He is a guest in the home of Simon the tanner, who lives by the sea.’ So I sent for you immediately, and it was good of you to come. Now we are all here in the presence of God to listen to everything the Lord has commanded you to tell us.”
  
  Then Peter began to speak: “I now realize how true it is that God does not show favoritism but accepts men from every nation who fear him and do what is right. You know the message God sent to the people of Israel, telling the good news of peace through Jesus Christ, who is Lord of all. You know what has happened throughout Judea, beginning in Galilee after the baptism that John preached— how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and power, and how he went around doing good and healing all who were under the power of the devil, because God was with him
  
  Romans 2:11
  For God does not show favoritism
  
  This passage is in reference to Jews and Gentiles being judged equally before God by the same standards
  
  The key with this verse, is that the Greek word used for favoritism is “prosōpolēmpsia” which means someone who gives judgment without being partial to either party because of their heritage, wealth, status or station
  
  This passage is a clear statement by Paul that Jewish people should not feel superior to the Gentiles as, regardless of whatever lineage, ethnicity, etc… someone is born to or has, God will judge them with the exact same standard as everyone else–something that the Jewish people did not believe before as they thought the Gentiles were excluded from salvation
  
  Again, this scripture is not about God loving people equally
  
  Romans 2:5-11
  But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God’s wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed. God “will give to each person according to what he has done.” To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. For God does not show favoritism
  
  Ephesians 6:9
  And masters, treat your slaves in the same way. Do not threaten them, since you know that he who is both their Master and yours is in heaven, and there is no favoritism with him
  
  This passage is another reference to God being just, and judging people equally by the same standards regardless of their station in life, not that he loves people equally
  
  The reference to slaves and masters is important to note as people who owned slaves treated them as less than human at the time, so Paul this passage is both a reminder and warning to those who own slaves that we will all be judged according to the same equal standards before God–there will be no favoritism shown because someone is rich or in a social class above someone else
  
  This verse is not about God loving people equally regardless of how they live their lives
  
  Ephesians 6:5-9
  Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ. Obey them not only to win their favor when their eye is on you, but like slaves of Christ, doing the will of God from your heart. Serve wholeheartedly, as if you were serving the Lord, not men, because you know that the Lord will reward everyone for whatever good he does, whether he is slave or free.
  
  And masters, treat your slaves in the same way. Do not threaten them, since you know that he who is both their Master and yours is in heaven, and there is no favoritism with him
  ************************************
  
  In summary, the passages you quote do not substantiate the idea that God loves everyone equally, and I know it is a tough concept to accept at first since it tarnishes the idea that many believe that God loves everyone the same, but beyond “feeling right”, this doesn’t line up with the Bible
  
  Also, after reading your spirited reaction to this article, I would offer the advice that it is important to question and remark on things that we feel are not right as that is how we learn and grow, but we should always be careful when quoting scripture to back our point of view up and check for context, not just keywords
  
  Most importantly, we can’t hold on to any doctrine because “it feels right”, that is the deadliest place to be as a Christian, we must always carefully, and thoroughly, review what we think we “know” is right against sound theology in the Bible
  - http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100001389399543 Daniel Crosby
    
    the thing is when you say god doesn’t love everyone equally you are implying that he is inconstant but god loves every man women and child equally no matter the sin because when he forgives us he sees us all the same so if we as all the same full of sin can he love one more than another
    - http://www.godandstuff.com Nathan
      
      Hi Daniel,
      
      Since you are insisting that I am wrong, the next step in the discussion is for you to support your position with scripture that confirms God loves everyone equally no matter how they live their lives
      
      Theological discussions can’t be resolved with personal conjecture
- http://www.godandstuff.com Nathan
  
  Hi Daniel,
  
  I am not sure what you mean by calling Mary a whore, can you expand on this, that is an interesting way to open a debate
  
  There are a number of things I want to address in your response, but primarily, I want to address your misquoting of scripture as it looks like you read the article, then went onto a Bible site and looked up “favoritism” without reading the verses around them for context on what they really meant
  
  Let’s take your scriptures one by one
  
  ************************************
  Acts 10:34
  Then Peter began to speak: “I now realize how true it is that God does not show favoritism
  
  This verse is not about God showing favoritism about sin, it is about Peter, a Jew, understanding for the first time that the Gentiles were to receive, and benefit from, the salvation made available through Jesus’ death on the cross and inherit these blessings right alongside the Jewish people
  
  Previously, such a thing was completely unheard of, and the very idea would have caused him to labeled as a radical, a heretic, and cause him to lose all credibility with the Jewish people as Gentiles were regarded as less than the Jewish nation, and were not entitled to anything from God
  
  His statement that “God does not show favoritism” is based on the fact that God’s salvation is for all, not just for the Jews, it is for all “men from every nation who fear him and do what is right”
  
  Also, the Greek word used here for favoritism is “prosōpolēmptēs”, which means “discriminate”, so what this verse is saying is that God’s salvation is available to all without discrimination, as in this case, between Jew or Gentile
  
  This passage has nothing to do with whether God loves people equally or not
  
  Acts 10:27-38
  Talking with him, Peter went inside and found a large gathering of people. He said to them: “You are well aware that it is against our law for a Jew to associate with a Gentile or visit him. But God has shown me that I should not call any man impure or unclean. So when I was sent for, I came without raising any objection. May I ask why you sent for me?”
  
  Cornelius answered: “Four days ago I was in my house praying at this hour, at three in the afternoon. Suddenly a man in shining clothes stood before me and said, ‘Cornelius, God has heard your prayer and remembered your gifts to the poor. Send to Joppa for Simon who is called Peter. He is a guest in the home of Simon the tanner, who lives by the sea.’ So I sent for you immediately, and it was good of you to come. Now we are all here in the presence of God to listen to everything the Lord has commanded you to tell us.”
  
  Then Peter began to speak: “I now realize how true it is that God does not show favoritism but accepts men from every nation who fear him and do what is right. You know the message God sent to the people of Israel, telling the good news of peace through Jesus Christ, who is Lord of all. You know what has happened throughout Judea, beginning in Galilee after the baptism that John preached— how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and power, and how he went around doing good and healing all who were under the power of the devil, because God was with him
  
  Romans 2:11
  For God does not show favoritism
  
  This passage is in reference to Jews and Gentiles being judged equally before God by the same standards
  
  The key with this verse, is that the Greek word used for favoritism is “prosōpolēmpsia” which means someone who gives judgment without being partial to either party because of their heritage, wealth, status or station
  
  This passage is a clear statement by Paul that Jewish people should not feel superior to the Gentiles as, regardless of whatever lineage, ethnicity, etc… someone is born to or has, God will judge them with the exact same standard as everyone else–something that the Jewish people did not believe before as they thought the Gentiles were excluded from salvation
  
  Again, this scripture is not about God loving people equally
  
  Romans 2:5-11
  But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God’s wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed. God “will give to each person according to what he has done.” To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. For God does not show favoritism
  
  Ephesians 6:9
  And masters, treat your slaves in the same way. Do not threaten them, since you know that he who is both their Master and yours is in heaven, and there is no favoritism with him
  
  This passage is another reference to God being just, and judging people equally by the same standards regardless of their station in life, not that he loves people equally
  
  The reference to slaves and masters is important to note as people who owned slaves treated them as less than human at the time, this passage is Paul speaking both a reminder and warning to those who own slaves that we will all be judged according to the same equal standards before God–there will be no favoritism shown because someone is rich or in a social class above someone else
  
  This verse is not about God loving people equally regardless of how they live their lives
  
  Ephesians 6:5-9
  Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ. Obey them not only to win their favor when their eye is on you, but like slaves of Christ, doing the will of God from your heart. Serve wholeheartedly, as if you were serving the Lord, not men, because you know that the Lord will reward everyone for whatever good he does, whether he is slave or free.
  
  And masters, treat your slaves in the same way. Do not threaten them, since you know that he who is both their Master and yours is in heaven, and there is no favoritism with him
  ************************************
  
  In summary, the passages you quote do not substantiate the idea that God loves everyone equally, and I know it is a tough concept to accept at first since it tarnishes the idea that many believe that God loves everyone the same, but beyond “feeling right”, this doesn’t line up with the Bible
  
  Also, after reading your spirited reaction to this article, I would offer the advice that it is important to question and remark on things that we feel are not right as that is how we all learn and grow, but we should always be careful when quoting scripture to back our point of view up and check for context, not just keywords
  
  Most importantly, we can’t hold on to any doctrine because “it feels right”, that is the deadliest place to be as a Christian, we must always carefully, and thoroughly, review what we think we “know” is right against sound theology in the Bible
  - http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100001389399543 Daniel Crosby
    
    i was speaking of Mary Magdalene the harlot that Jesus saved from being stoned to death
Breaunna Rodriguez

I completely disagree with your accusation of Jesus not loving everyone equally. It seems as if you’re reading out of context. Take for example, Mary Magdalene, although she sinned, everyone sinned and still does. Jesus loves us all equally because He forgives. Obviously He forgives, John 3:16 states “For God so loved the world, He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in Him shall not perish but have everlasting life.” If that’s NOT love, then I’m clueless on what is. He loves everyone equally, some He may be dissapointed in, but that doesn’t mean He loves them less. It’s like a child doing something wrong and the parent saying, “I love you less than your other siblings because you’re doing something I don’t approve of.” Jesus loves us all equally, that’s just how it is.
- http://www.godandstuff.com Nathan
  
  Hi Breaunna,
  
  In reading your response, you are not separating the concept of God’s forgiveness for those who turn from their sin, from the way he regards those who love him and live holy, righteous lives
  
  John 3:16 states that Jesus died for our sins, but there is nothing implied, or explicit, in this verse that says he loves everyone equally
  
  Your statement that “Jesus loves us all equally, that’s just how it is” is a strong expression of your personal opinion, but can you back this up with scripture?
Sk8_gurl_em

umm so idk alot about everything that is said in the Bible, but everything that you said above disgusted me, i would argue with you but i don’t think that that is necessary, one day you will stand before God in all of his majesty, have fun trying to explain this one to Him….
- http://www.godandstuff.com Nathan
  
  Hello,
  
  I am taken back by the level of aggressive negativity expressed in your response, especially when you are saying you haven’t done any research to know whether the article is right or wrong
  
  But most importantly, I am disappointed that you would blow up and storm off without a conversation as it re-enforces the negative stereotype of close-minded Christians
  
  Exodus 16:8
  Who are we? You are not grumbling against us, but against the LORD
Derek R.

Hello,
I must disagree with your statement. God loves all. He does judge all, but we must treat those who arent familiar to the Gospel or to God like fragile glass. We obviously must show them what they are doing is wrong, but we must not exert that too much. And God loves all the same! God does not show favoritism to any. He has His chosen people, but we are not to distinguish ourselves as favorites and look down on the rest of the world. Christ dies for ALL of us, meaning that He loves ALL of us equally. Do you honselt believe that God would ever say “I like that person more than that person”? Ofcourse not. God is just and fair, but He is love.
May God bless you,
Derek
- http://www.godandstuff.com Nathan
  
  Hi Derek,
  
  I understand that you have an emotional point of view, but can you point to some verses in the Bible that clearly state that God loves everyone equally no matter what they do in life, I haven’t found it and if I am wrong I would like to know
  - http://somewhatbaptist.tumblr.com Daniel
    
    ‘For while we were still weak, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly…God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.’ [Romans 5:6,8 ESV]
    
    I was pretty tempted to leave my case there.
    
    If God’s love was dependent upon our righteousness, then that entirely negates the gospel of grace as delineated in the New Testament.
    
    Also, there are examples from the actual events of Jesus’ life that seriously undermine the argument that he loves sinners less than he loves righteous people:
    
    ‘And as Jesus reclined at table in the house, behold, many tax collectors and sinners came and were reclining with Jesus and his disciples. And when the Pharisees saw this, they said to his disciples, “Why does your teacher eat with tax collectors and sinners?” But when he heard it, he said, “Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. Go and learn what this means, ‘I desire mercy, and not sacrifice.’ For I came not to call the righteous, but sinners.”
    [Matthew 9:10-13 ESV]
    
    If Jesus, being by very nature God, were to go so far as to call sinners his ‘enemies’, as Paul does:
    
    ‘For many, of whom I have often told you and now tell you even with tears, walk as enemies of the cross of Christ.’
    [Philippians 3:18 ESV]
    
    then he would still be bound by his own command to ‘Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you.’ [Matthew 5:44 ESV].
    
    In fact, the whole discourse at the end of Matthew chapter 5 concerns loving only those who love you, for as Jesus himself says:
    
    ‘For [God] makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and the unjust. For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? And if you greet only your brothers, what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same? You therefore must be perfect, as your Father in heaven is perfect.’
    [Matthew 5:45b-48 ESV].
    
    If the implication is to love even those who hate because we must be ‘perfect, as your Father in heaven is perfect’, then this clearly demonstrates that God loves those who don’t love him, otherwise the comparison is fallacious.
    
    Unless Jesus doesn’t need to live by his own teachings.
    - http://www.godandstuff.com Nathan
      
      Hi Daniel,
      
      This particular topic is challenging for sure, you have some good points, but let’s dig into them as you generally misunderstood the point of the article
      
      This is not about whether or not Jesus loved sinners enough to die for them, the article’s first line is:
      
      “It is true that Jesus loves them, and died for them…”
      
      However, the basis of your rebuttal’s premise is that the article says Jesus does not love sinners, which is false, so I am glad you did not stop at your first scripture and walk away
      
      Regarding the article’s main point, how would you address the scriptures listed in the article itself?
      
      But, more importantly, how would you address the following statement that Jesus made:
      
      John 15:9-15
      As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Now remain in my love. If you obey my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have obeyed my Father’s commands and remain in his love. I have told you this so that my joy may be in you and that your joy may be complete
      
      My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you. Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends. You are my friends if you do what I command. I no longer call you servants, because a servant does not know his master’s business. Instead, I have called you friends, for everything that I learned from my Father I have made known to you
      
      Jesus makes three really important points in this passage:
      
      1) If you obey my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have obeyed my Father’s commands and remain in his love
      2) Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends
      3) You are my friends if you do what I command
      
      This raises a really interesting point about the nature of Jesus’ sacrifice: did he really die for “everyone” or just those whom he calls friends, ie: those who obey what he commands
      
      Now, for some trickier points
      
      Even though John 3:16 says that “God so loved the world”, not everyone is going to inherit salvation–as sad as it is, we can agree on this point
      
      Even though Jesus died for us in the height of our sin, his death was actually only for those who would inherit salvation
      
      *crickets*
      
      Paul raises this very point here:
      
      Romans 9:21-24
      Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for noble purposes and some for common use?
      
      What if God, choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath—prepared for destruction? What if he did this to make the riches of his glory known to the objects of his mercy, whom he prepared in advance for glory—even us, whom he also called, not only from the Jews but also from the Gentiles?
      
      Again, two really important points:
      
      1) What if God, choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath—prepared for destruction?
      2) What if he did this to make the riches of his glory known to the objects of his mercy, whom he prepared in advance for glory
      
      Pretty crazy huh?
      
      This is a challenging concept at first, as we have been taught, and frankly people just want to believe, that God’s love is the same for everyone no matter what they do and that everyone is equal in God’s eyes
      
      However, there is no scriptural backing for this that I have ever been able to find
      
      Think of it like this, Jesus said not to cast our pearls before swine, so why would he cast himself before “swine” and die for people who wouldn’t inherit salvation because of the choices in their lives–but of course God wishes that no one perish
      
      2 Peter 3:9
      The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance
      
      Matthew 7:6
      Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and then turn and tear you to pieces
      
      So, the reality is, even though Jesus loves everyone, there is definitely a separation both in relationship and regard based on people’s conduct, ie:
      
      John 14:21
      Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1524376421 Hunter Yarbrough

Hi Nathan. I see your reasoning. I see your theology. 1 John 4:8 says He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love. In saying that, I don’t necessarily say you’re completely wrong but all variables should be considered, especially the fact that God is love. God loves pastors, missionaries, and such; but He WOULD love porn stars and such if they would submit to Him. God is Love, and in turn, those that don’t know God, don’t know Love. So to expose them to God, we must show them the Love that He has given us. Xxxchurch does this, I think. In the judgment days, God will say to some, depart from me for I never knew you. This means that they don’t know Love. So it is our job as the body of Christ to expose them to His love. It is our ability as humans to do that. That is what Jesus became human to do. Humans are tainted by sin. Jesus became human so He could expose us to love. The reason God Himself doesn’t do this, is because it is a physical impossibility for us humans, tainted, to look upon the face of God, pure. We would die if such a thing were to happen.
- http://www.godandstuff.com Nathan
  
  Hi Hunter,
  
  Yes, you are totally right, God’s favor isn’t reserved for those who spend their entire lives loving him, it is reserved for those who love and adore him–just like how the prodigal son’s father ran to meet him when he was coming home, God loves to show mercy!
  
  Micah 7:18
  Who is a God like you, who pardons sin and forgives the transgression of the remnant of his inheritance? You do not stay angry forever but delight to show mercy
  
  And yes, it is our job to help them understand the level of sacrifice that God was inspired to pay in order to make salvation available to all creation
  
  One thing though, is that Jesus becoming a man was important in a number of ways, but the most important reason was that so Jesus could judge mankind after having been a man himself
  
  This goes great lengths to show us that God’s level of compassion and understanding of our choices will be based not just on his standards, but also what it felt like to be human and personally face temptation
  
  Sin is so contrary to God’s nature, that this had to take place
  
  John 5:21-22
  For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son gives life to whom he is pleased to give it. Moreover, the Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgment to the Son
  
  Romans 2:16
  This will take place on the day when God will judge men’s secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares
Nicholas

The bottom line is this, no one is beyond God’s mercy, no matter what they’ve done. NO ONE.
- http://www.godandstuff.com Nathan
  
  Hi Nicholas,
  
  Thank God for the grace and forgiveness he has shown us all, as everyone has fallen short of God’s standard of righteousness
  
  Heaven rejoices when people come to God and turn from death!
  
  Luke 15:7
  I tell you that in the same way there will be more rejoicing in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who do not need to repent
- Keith
  
  Lets look at what your picking to make your point.
  
  Psalm 103:11 As the heavens tower over the earth, so God’s love towers over the righteous.
  
  The Psalm is not a statement of favoritism to those that are righteous over those that are not.At least in the sense of love. As a matter of fact these words are not even those of God but of David. Davids praise of Divine Goodness. To use the Psalms as a means of making your point is mute. When you enter into the NT you find that Jesus has come to testify to the truth and as the sacrificial lamb of God that takes away the sins of the world. Your John 10:29 verse speaks of the righteous already being in the hand of God and him not letting go. While the NT speaks mostly about Jesus pursuing those that are walking blind. So, he has come to save the porn stars as well as those that view it. Why? Because he loves them too. To say that God has favorites is absurd. If that where the case than why would he choose the 12 apostles. There had to have been far more righteous people than them at the time! They where quite a group.
  
  Jesus was all about holding baby lambs, hugging children, high-fives, and sunshine covered rainbow sparkles! That is a ridiculous statement! The Jesus that the NT is about gets angry in Matthew 21:12 when merchants are selling and buying in the temple. He also shows frustration with the apostles and others when they are eyewitnesses to all that he has done yet the still don’t seem to get it.So, its not that he’s just holding baby lambs, ect.
  
  Jesus and God are the the same, so… that means unless God has multiple personalities, they share the same character. No! Not the same character the same being. There’s a difference.
  
  I would like to state that I appreciate the article/blog post or whatever it is. So, thank you.
  - http://www.godandstuff.com Nathan
    
    Hi Keith,
    
    Thank you for writing, it is very thoughtful feedbackAs I read your response, I am confused by some of your statements, and it looks like some of the scriptures are misunderstood, maybe you can help?
    
    For example, you start by saying that David’s psalms are just “David’s words” not God’s; does that mean you disregard all of David’s words as just human words, and not the inspired word of God?
    
    How do you classify what the other writers in the Bible contributed, do you disregard their words in the same fashion, ie: Paul, Peter, the gospels, etc…?Also, can you explain what are you basing your interpretation of Psalm 103:11 on, and why did you not address the other verses listed with it, ie:
    
    Proverbs 11:20
    The LORD detests men of perverse heart but he delights in those whose ways are blameless
    
    Psalm 11:5
    The LORD examines the righteous, but the wicked and those who love violence his soul hates
    
    These verses are direct, clear statements that are very difficult to overlook when engaging in this discussionRegarding the reference to John 10:29-30, take note that this is about Jesus saying that he and the Father are one, which is mentioned here to show the connection between God and Jesus as being one
    
    This is important because a lot of people look at God’s character in the OT and say that Jesus is “not like that” as if he were a totally separate entityAlso, Jesus came to save the lost, that is never disputed, remotely or directly, but Jesus did show favorites, even while on earth
    
    However, it is important to remember that there is no favoritism when it comes to the judgment of sin, ie: murder is murder, no matter who commits it
    
    John 21:20-23
    Peter turned and saw that the disciple whom Jesus loved was following them. (This was the one who had leaned back against Jesus at the supper and had said, “Lord, who is going to betray you?”) When Peter saw him, he asked, “Lord, what about him?
    
    Jesus answered, “If I want him to remain alive until I return, what is that to you? You must follow me.” Because of this, the rumor spread among the brothers that this disciple would not die. But Jesus did not say that he would not die; he only said, “If I want him to remain alive until I return, what is that to you?”
    
    The comment about Jesus hugging baby lambs was meant to be an exaggeration of the people who think that Jesus was incapable of becoming angry, I am glad you understand that this is not true!
Keith

Hi Nathan,

I would like to start this post with an apology. I did not give your post the attention it deserved. I read it very rapidly and missed most of where you were going. To add insult to injury in my hast I lead you to question whether I believed the Bible was inspired or at minimum the Psalms. Well I do. Entirely.
So please allow me to have a mulligan.

I agree that God has those with whom he is more pleased with or favors over others. I would also say that he has those (the righteous) that he gives special graces to.Individuals who exhibit heroic virtue. Individuals that only through the grace of God are able to accomplish amazing things. Thus , inspiring us to try to do better.I sir am not one of them!
I look at a men and woman who struggle with drug addiction, anger, monogamy,pornography and have to say but for the grace of God there go I. I know that I am not one of the righteous I am with everyone else that receives sufficient grace to remain faithful but struggles day to day to do the right thing. Sometimes succeeding and other times failing, but always knowing that at those moments God still loves me and is willing to forgive me. When I wake I first thank God for his mercy and than pick up my cross and put the armor of God on and enter a world that does not understand me and thinks I’ve sold out life. They don’t understand the joy and comfort I feel knowing that he is with me till the end.

Back to the point.

Does Jesus love everyone equally. NO. That’s certainly not to say that he doesn’t love everyone; including the porn star. But the porn star has a life that contradicts Jesus entirely. Its lustful, selfish, degrading, ect. So, we have a porn star that we agree is not with God but is loved by him and able to turn away from their life and pursue Jesus.

Who is better? The porn star that has no faith and no real knowledge of the Bible. Or the christian that goes to church weekly but in his or her spare time is watching that same pornography?

My point is we always look at extremes and compare them and judge them. Its easy their the extreme. Porn star not with God . Righteous with God. What about the middle? Where most christian live.

Thanks Nathan I hope I didn’t get way off base.

God Bless You
Keith
- http://www.godandstuff.com Nathan
  
  Hi Keith,
  
  Wow, you are awesome, seriously
  
  That is the most mature, humble,peace loving answer I have ever heard
  
  Thank God for the relationship you have with him, we should talk more often!
  
  The middle is where most people exist; somewhere between the ideals they aspire to, and the things that they willingly let get in their way
  
  James 1:14
  …but each one is tempted when, by his own evil desire, he is dragged away and enticed
  
  Revelation 3:15-16
  I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were either one or the other! So, because you are lukewarm—neither hot nor cold—I am about to spit you out of my mouth
  
  Luke 13:24
  Make every effort to enter through the narrow door, because many, I tell you, will try to enter and will not be able to
  
  The statement of “…many, I tell you, will try to enter and not be able to” is really important for us to remember, as even those who are on the right path are not guaranteed to be greeted by the intended destination
  
  There is a tremendous need to respect God, his will, and authority, as it is the only path to salvation, and should be a natural expression of our understanding, gratitude, and joy in receiving the gift of God’s love
  
  Philippians 2:12
  Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed—not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence—continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling
  
  1 Corinthians 9:24-27
  Do you not know that in a race all the runners run, but only one gets the prize? Run in such a way as to get the prize. Everyone who competes in the games goes into strict training. They do it to get a crown that will not last; but we do it to get a crown that will last forever. Therefore I do not run like a man running aimlessly; I do not fight like a man beating the air. No, I beat my body and make it my slave so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified for the prize
  
  1 John 4:16-19
  God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in him. In this way, love is made complete among us so that we will have confidence on the day of judgment, because in this world we are like him. There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love
  - Keith
    
    Hi Nathan,
    
    I appreciate the kind words. I give all glory to God. Nonetheless I agree it would be nice to speak more often.
    
    I think you have covered the scriptural bases very well. Thank you for that.
    
    So I’ll take lukewarmness from another angle and see what ya think.
    
    We live in a society of shoppers. To many choices from things like cell phones, cars, houses, cloths, and even food. We purchase things that fit our lifestyle or at least the one we won’t to present to the world. I once heard that there are some 40,000 denominations of Christianity in the world all claiming that they have the truth of Christ. Think about that; 40,000 even if that is an exaggeration and the truth is half that amount. Its kinda scary.
    
    So, with all that to choose from we can shop for a Church like we do for all that I listed above. Instead of me changing myself I can select a Church that suites me and the way I won’t to live. I comfort myself with that because I get affirmation from the Preacher every week. In essence we dilute the message of Christ creating lukewarmness. Whether we know it or not.
    
    If I were a non Christian (Thanks be to God I’m not) I would be confused. How would I ever be-able to find a church that truly teaches the true message of Christ. I may even be inclined to completely turn away. I mean its not like we’re a nation of deep thinkers and that being said even a nation in search of truth. At this point in our country truth is supposedly relative. So, we’re not just diluting the truth of Jesus. Some claim there really is no absolute truth.
    
    Lukewarmness at this point is not just spiritual laziness. Its biblical ignorance among Christians.
    
    I Pray that all Christians and Non Christians alike pursue the truth, live it,fight for it and except nothing less from themselves and others.
    
    Thanks for indulging me in my rant.
    God Bless
    Keith
    - http://www.godandstuff.com Nathan
      
      Hi Keith,
      
      Lukewarmness makes me sneeze
      
      Coming from a youth surrounded by Christianity, I went through a period of incredible rebellion from eighteen until about twenty-three, during which I went completely bananas
      
      Afterwards, I realized that nothing made me happier than God, but I also questioned what “truth” was in the context of religion and Christianity as my biggest concern was that I was raised to think a certain way, and wanted to know if it was really the truth
      
      I started off a multiple year search for truth with the statement of:
      
      “God, I know you are real, but why are there 30+ versions of the Bible, 50+ major denominations of Christianity, and tons of other religions in the world?”
      
      After researching Christianity and other religions, I came to the conclusion that what I had been taught was the real deal as it lined up with scripture completely, and the other religions of the world didn’t make intellectual or philosophical sense when I dug into them deeply
      
      I have always lived life with the point of view that there is, of course, truth
      
      Jesus said it plainly himself
      
      John 14:6
      Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me”
      
      If Jesus isn’t the truth, then yikes, everything falls apart, as he didn’t say he was “the way, the grey area, and the life”
      
      It is really easy for people to not mature in our society like you mention, that is a really good point, as we are not taught to respect or be loyal to anything, not even ourselves, ie: we only like what other people tell us
      
      An easy example of this are the people who wear labels or listen to music because it is “cool” without thinking about whether they really like the things or not
      
      We often see this in Christianity too, as people like music, read books, go to church, etc… not because it is their passion, but because they are participating in the culture more than seeking God’s presence
      
      To your point about the challenge of finding a good church, I would rather go to a tin shack where the word was preached than a big church and waste my time!
      
      I take an example from how Jesus addressed the seven churches in Revelation, only one of them got a good a report card, which is a slim ratio considering that everyone going to the other six churches were probably under the assumption they were doing okay
      
      The biggest thing that I have found that is a revelation of lukewarm Christianity, is that people do not want to use their time for anything other than themselves
      
      It is easy to tithe, it is easy to go to a Bible study or church, but it isn’t always easy witnessing to people, feeding people on the street, etc…
      
      Our works reflect the character of our soul!
      
      James 2:14-19
      What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save him? Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food. If one of you says to him, “Go, I wish you well; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about his physical needs, what good is it? In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.
      
      But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds.”
      
      Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by what I do. You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder
- http://www.facebook.com/daan.rademaker Daan Rademaker
  
  The most important thing to god is not whether or not one lives a righteous lives or one obeys all of his commands. This reminds me of Paul speaking in Romans how the Jews had misunderstood the things that are most important to god, the base on which all of gods approvement and grace reaches us… Faith. This is the foundation we build every relationship on.
  God loves people therefore even before we believe in him and open our whole hearts to this beautiful grace or kindness. 2 Corinthians 2:15
  “For we are to God the fragrance of Christ among those who are being saved and among those who are perishing”
  
  God literally says here that he loves the saved people just as much as the people who still perish under their sin. Whether you are mother Theresa or Jenna Jameson it doesn’t matter. The only difference between the two is the way they both receive gods grace and how they full his desires for them in the world.
  Therefore we need to share anyone that god loves us, for how can we expect one to build faith and receive Christ’s grace if we do not show them God’s undeniable love for them.
  
  thanks,
  God bless you all.
  - http://www.godandstuff.com Nathan
    
    Hi Daan,
    
    I agree that we should let people know that they are not judged for their lifestyles, regardless of how given over to sin they are, and at no point should they feel any hesitation about opening up or repenting because they are afraid of being looked down upon–in fact, as Christians we should be leading the way when it comes to sharing our past, and present, sins
    
    However, we have to remember the personality of the God that we worship and are inviting others to know, ie: the Bible is very clear on God’s feelings for people who love and are given over to sin
    
    At no point in the article does it say that God’s feelings of anger or disregard are irreversible, and yes, Jesus died for us while we were still sinners (if he didn’t that would contradict the Bible!), as nobody has ever “earned” God’s love, he gives it to those whom he will have mercy on
    
    Romans 9:10-18
    Not only that, but Rebekah’s children had one and the same father, our father Isaac. Yet, before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad—in order that God’s purpose in election might stand: not by works but by him who calls—she was told, “The older will serve the younger.” Just as it is written: “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”
    
    What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Not at all! For he says to Moses,
    
    “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.”
    
    It does not, therefore, depend on man’s desire or effort, but on God’s mercy. For the Scripture says to Pharaoh: “I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.” Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.
    
    These statements from Paul reflect that God is much more specific with his mercy than distributing it everywhere–this is not something people today are very familiar with
    
    Also, regarding your quotation of 2 Corinthians 2:15, can you provide scriptural backing for your “literal” interpretation that faith is the most important thing to God, I have not read anything that would indicate this, but rather the opposite–even demons acknowledge that there is only one God, so faith without corresponding respect and action is useless
    
    James 2:19
    You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder
    
    I also do not understand your interpretation that asserts this scripture is about God loving people equally, and after reading the entire section, this verse speaks openly of God’s people being a pleasant aroma to God, even among those who are already dead–I do not see where this turns into a passage about people being loved equally?
    
    2 Corinthians 2:10-12
    Now when I went to Troas to preach the gospel of Christ and found that the Lord had opened a door for me, I still had no peace of mind, because I did not find my brother Titus there. So I said good-by to them and went on to Macedonia.
    
    But thanks be to God, who always leads us in triumphal procession in Christ and through us spreads everywhere the fragrance of the knowledge of him. For we are to God the aroma of Christ among those who are being saved and those who are perishing. To the one we are the smell of death; to the other, the fragrance of life. And who is equal to such a task? Unlike so many, we do not peddle the word of God for profit. On the contrary, in Christ we speak before God with sincerity, like men sent from God.
Jess

I like how you are sharing the truth.
- http://www.godandstuff.com Nathan
  
  Hi Jess,
  
  Thank you for the encouragement!
  
  This is definitely a touchy subject, and I really enjoy digging into the tough conversations as they generate the most discussion and growth
  
  I hope you find other articles here you enjoy as well!
Clondon1318

Wow. Wake up call. I always thought that God would always love us, even if he was deeply disapointed with our choices. That hurt, but now I know how to better myself even further.
- http://www.godandstuff.com Nathan
  
  Hello,
  
  That is an amazing reaction, praise God!
  
  It is so important for us to understand God’s personality, and attitude towards sin, when we think he loves and rewards us no matter how we act, it is an incredibly dangerous thing!
  
  I prayed that you will have an incredible revelation of God’s character, do you seek him in his Word often?
Gabe

Hi okay so i was watching the pres. debate last night in NH (don’t worry, its linked to this topic, i had a question) and they got to the topic of same gender marriage. Now i know God calls gays an abomination (Leviticus and i think its Corinthians states it), but how are we supposed to treat them? And what happens to them. One, it says judge not lest you be judged, so are we supposed to treat them the same as those who do traditional marriage or? And for what happens to them, Jesus said no sin is too great (other than disbelief) so do they go to hell? Sprry me and my mom had a nice little mini debate on this.
- http://www.godandstuff.com Nathan
  
  Hi Gabe,
  
  It is nice to meet you!
  
  Before digging into your question, it is important to understand the difference between “judging” and “condemning” people, as “judging” as it was written in the Greek most often meant “condemn”, but we are told to “judge” people in the sense that we should objectively be able to assess whether someone, including ourselves, is sinning or not
  
  For a more detailed explanation on this point specifically, check out this article:
  http://www.godandstuff.com/?p=5010
  
  Regarding your main question, there are two important points to understand when discussing this topic, ie: we should never consider the behavior of those outside of the church, and that there is a difference between people being committed to overcoming something sinful versus people who claim that there is nothing wrong with what they do, even though it contradicts the Bible’s teachings
  
  1 Corinthians 5:12-13
  What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? God will judge those outside. “Expel the wicked man from among you”
  
  (Taking care to read the above verse as meaning we are to “objectively assess one another” within the church, not condemn each other for sins)
  
  Proverbs 30:20
  This is the way of an adulteress: She eats and wipes her mouth and says, ‘I’ve done nothing wrong’
  
  Everyone struggles with sin, but there are not many other cases I can think of where people are comfortable flagrantly contradicting the Bible by saying “this is how I am, accept me” as if there is nothing wrong
  
  No one who is addicted to porn, alcohol and drugs, lying, money, etc… would dare to get up in church and say their sins are “okay” as these are all clearly mapped out in the Bible as being wrong, just like homosexuality
  
  1 Corinthians 6:9-10
  Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God
  
  Jesus and Paul were very specific when it came to dealing with sinful people who refused to listen, and act, according to correction based on the Word
  
  Matthew 18:15-17
  If your brother sins against you, go and show him his fault, just between the two of you. If he listens to you, you have won your brother over. But if he will not listen, take one or two others along, so that ‘every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.’ If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector
  
  1 Corinthians 5:9-12
  I have written you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people—not at all meaning the people of this world who are immoral, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters. In that case you would have to leave this world. But now I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who calls himself a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat.
  
  What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? God will judge those outside. “Expel the wicked man from among you”
  
  As we can see, Paul is saying that, for those inside the church who claim to be Christians but continue on with a life of sin, are people we should not even eat with, and should kick out
  
  To a lot of people this will sound harsh, but it is mainly because they do not understand what this really means
  
  As in the examples listed above, if someone said “porn makes me happy and is what I am attracted to by nature, do not judge me, if God did not want me to look at porn I would not be attracted to it”, people would think they were outrageous and not accept behavior or statements like that
  
  Jude 1:8-10
  In the very same way, these dreamers pollute their own bodies, reject authority and slander celestial beings. But even the archangel Michael, when he was disputing with the devil about the body of Moses, did not dare to bring a slanderous accusation against him, but said, “The Lord rebuke you!” Yet these men speak abusively against whatever they do not understand; and what things they do understand by instinct, like unreasoning animals—these are the very things that destroy them
  
  How to deal with homosexuality is a big dividing issue in churches, but the Bible is very clear on the issue of it being wrong, and how we should respond to people who reject God’s standard of righteousness in favor of their own moral compass as if they are right and the Bible is wrong–this is a particularly challenging issue
  - http://www.facebook.com/burton.bagbygrose Burton Bagby-Grose
    
    Hi Nathan, I went to seminary and know Greek and Hebrew as well.
    
    In Corinthians 6:9:
    
    I learned from my Greek professor in seminary that in Paul’s First Letter to the Corinthians, chapter 6, verse 9, the Greek word “arsenokoitai,” which is often improperly translated as “homosexual,” is more properly translated as “pederasty.” “Pederasty” is defined as anal intercourse with a boy as the passive partner. Fair-minded Greek scholars agree with this definition.
    
    This mistranslation is similar to the improper translation in Paul’s Letter to the Colossians in chapter 4, verse 15. In this verse, Paul sends greetings to Nympha and the church in her house. Except in the King James Version, scholars decided to change “Nympha” to “Nymphas,” thereby changing her gender to male.
    
    Compare any modern translation to the King James Version and you’ll see this discrepancy. We have the manuscripts those scholars used in the early 1600s and can therefore see that they intentionally changed the gender of Nympha to male.
    
    Unfortunately, cultural bias in the translating of Scripture continues today.
    - http://www.godandstuff.com Nathan
      
      Hi Burton,
      
      I am not sure I understand your point regarding 1 Corinthians 6:9, as saying “they mistranslated it” without any documentation of proof, or citing authoritive commentary, is a difficult platform to base a conversation around–citing that “fair-minded” scholars think a certain way is conjecture until proven otherwise, but I am open to the conversation
      
      Also, the Bible’s teachings about homosexuality are not limited to a single passage, nor do they revolve around a single, debated, word, so I am not sure if you are trying to justify that homosexuality is okay or if you are pointing out an instance of disputed translation in the NT, can you give some more detail on the intent of your post?
      
      Rather than preemptively respond to points you may not be making, I just want to make sure I understand where you are coming from
      - http://www.facebook.com/burton.bagbygrose Burton Bagby-Grose
        
        Hi Nathan,
        Theologians Douglas Stuart and Gordon D. Fee suggest that “the recognition of a degree of cultural relativity is a valid hermeneutical procedure and is an inevitable corollary of the occasional nature of epistles.”1 They offer guidelines2 for distinguishing between ideas that are relative to any given culture and ideas that are transcendent of culture and normative for Christians (and non-Christians). One of those guidelines as stated consists of documenting ideas – or the particular use of a word or phrase – about which the New Testament (NT) has a consistent witness and those about which it does not. The following is an application of this guideline to one crucial Greek word, arsenokoitai, which appears in one of the most popular so-called clobbering passages, 1 Corinthians 6:9-10.
        Dirty Old Men? Theologian Mel White3 agrees that the Greek word arsenokoitai, used for “homosexual” in 1 Corinthians 6:9, seems to refer to same-sex behavior. He argues that Greek scholars don’t know exactly what it means, however, and that this simple detail is a big part of this tragic debate.4
        He explains, “Some scholars believe Paul was coining a name to refer to customers of ‘the effeminate call boys.’ We might call them ‘dirty old men.’ Others translate the word as ‘sodomites,’ but never explain what that means.”5
        According to White, in 1958, a translator for the New Amplified Bible set historical precedent by translating this “mysterious” Greek word into English as the word “homosexuals,” even though no such word exists in either Greek or Hebrew. It was that translator, according to White, who “placed the word homosexual in the English-language Bible for the very first time.”6
        White blames this bad translation for the inability of many NT scholars today to make the proper, culturally relevant application of this passage in 1 Corinthians. He adds, “In the past, people used Paul’s writings to oppress women and limit their role in the home, in church, and in society. Now we have to ask ourselves, ‘Is it happening again? Is a word in Greek that has no clear definition being used to reflect society’s prejudice and condemn God’s gay children?’”7
        So what is the proper contextual meaning of this mysterious Greek word? The convincing argument from history that Paul is putting forth, White says, is a condemnation of the “married men who hired hairless young boys (malakois) for sexual pleasure just as they hired smooth-skinned young girls for that purpose.”8
        In light of this interpretation of the meaning of arsenokoitai, White concludes with an emotional appeal: “Responsible homosexuals would join Paul in condemning anyone who uses children for sex, just as we would join anyone else in condemning the threatened gang rape in Sodom or the behavior of the sex-crazed priests and priestesses in Rome. So…this passage says…nothing about homosexuality as we understand it today.”9
        
        NOTES
        1. Gordon D. Fee and Douglas Stewart, How to Read the Bible for All Its Worth (Grand Rapids: Zondervan, 2003), 71.
        2. Ibid., 71-76.
        3. Mel White is also a Christian minister and filmmaker, who describes how he reconciles his homosexuality with his Christian faith in his book Stranger at the Gate: To Be Gay and Christian in America (New York: Plume Books, 1994).
        4. See White’s “What the Bible Says-and Doesn’t Say-about Homosexuality,” available at http://www.soul-force.org/pdf/whatthebiblesays.pdf. This twenty-four page booklet is widely circulated by Soulforce, an interfaith movement founded by White, that is “committed to ending spiritual violence perpetuated by religious policies and teachings against gay, lesbian, bisexual, and transgender people.”
        5. Ibid., 18.
        6. Ibid.
        7. Ibid.
        8. Ibid.
        9. Ibid.
      - http://www.godandstuff.com Nathan
        
        Hi Burton,
        
        It looks like you discovered the copy and paste function of your computer, but I do not see a response to my original question: are you seeking to make a generalized justification of homosexuality, regardless of OT or NT context, or are you looking to reference a single issue within Paul’s letter to the church of Corinth?
Kaboomchild7

Technically, no one is considered righteous though. How can we reach out to a porn star if we ourselves are not that perfect?
- http://www.godandstuff.com Nathan
  
  Hello,
  
  The article was not meant to discourage people from witnessing to people outside the family of Christ, just to raise awareness on God’s personality, and how he views those who love and obey him, versus those who do not
  
  Also, to be clear, when it talks about Christians being righteous, it is talking about people who have let go of any lifestyle of sin, and even though they may make occasional stumbles, they are living differently than someone who has no desire to change or model themselves after God’s character in certain areas because they prefer sin
  
  Does that make sense?
- pstr. Mike
  
  Hi
  We are the Rightousness of Christ.. This is our true identity. since Jesus is not here in the Flesh.. We are commissioned to make disciples of Him where ever the Spirit sends us. All you have to really do is tell them “Jesus loves you” when you say that.. ALL OF HEAVEN BACKS UP THOSE THREE WORDS AND IN THAT MOMENT A SEED IS PLANTED… You plant it.. Let the Lord grow it so it will one day produce fruit.. It doesnt always have to be a conversion right there, altough it is awesome to see… Our timing is not the Lords.. But He is always on time.. amen
A21IQ

Thank you brother, I think it all goes back to one of Jesus . Although he did hang out with sinners, it was to reach to them,teach them the way of life. When Jesus saved that woman who committed adultery, yes he said that whoever has not sinned… (which people often use to justify that God will love you no matter what). Yes he will love you but he will hate your sin and since sin is a way of living… Jesus also told the woman that her sins were forgiven BUT He also warn her Not to sin again. God love sinners but there is a clock that is ticking and one day even his love will turn into a trial where every actions will have to be justify before his throne.We Christians need to stop fitting the Gospel into the world (it’s to big it won’t fit trust me I tried) but instead take the world back to the word of God.
- http://www.godandstuff.com Nathan
  
  Hello,
  
  I am so glad you said hello, welcome to the community!
  
  It is so important to teach people to have a sense of urgency as they work towards salvation, I think it is one of the most destructive things in contemporary Christianity that people believe it is “okay” to keep sinning once they become Christians because “Christianity is about forgiveness”
  
  God will judge all of us, examining our hearts and every careless word, and your statement below was particularly poignant:
  
  “God love sinners but there is a clock that is ticking and one day even his love will turn into a trial where every actions will have to be justify before his throne”
  
  Matthew 28:36-37
  But I tell you that men will have to give account on the day of judgment for every careless word they have spoken. For by your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned
- pstr Mike
  
  Thats right.. He said “woman!” lol..”where are those that condemn you?” There were none standing there so he said “nor do I condemn you.. go and sin no more.”… Its a good question to ask.. “how do we witness to someone like that when we ourselves have sin in us…?” The answer is simple.. Although we live in the flesh, we do not war according to the flesh.. Where sin abounds, GRACE abounds MORE! Amen.. So we can see that even in our own sin, we have recieved this grace to share with others.. Otherwise Jesus Himself would have to step off the throne and come here in the flesh to be able to talk to these people that need Him so badly since He is the ONLY one with out sin and the ONLY one who has the power to condemn.. Good discussion.
  Pstr. Mike
Jonathan Ford

God Love Everybody; If you are tired of other people forcing their beliefs on you; Figure out your own beliefs; all are Welcomed and Loved by God; Join an Open and Affirming church at http://www.facebook.com/martinsburgchristreformeducc